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IBIS INTERCONNECT MODELING AD HOC TASK GROUP MEETING MINUTES AND AGENDA

http://www.eda.org/ibis/adhoc/interconnect/

Mailing list: ibis-interconn@freelists.org

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Next Meeting
Wednesday, April 23, 2008
9 AM US Pacific Time

               Telephone     Bridge   Passcode
              916-356-2663     5      203-5043

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	Meeting ID:	023bf54278234c1ab26ef7aa77faef9d
	Entry Code:	Nx1zxQnkORq7
	Location:	meet:sip:michael.mirmak@intel.com;gruu;opaque=app:conf:focus:id:023bf54278234c1ab26ef7aa77faef9d%3Fconf-key=Nx1zxQnkORq7

Agenda:
- Opens
- Call for patents
- Schedule for upcoming meetings
- Touchstone 2.0/3.0 mixed-mode discussion
  * Proposal examples (Tao Su, Sigrity)
  * Comments (Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov, Mentor Graphics)

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Minutes from April 23:

Attendees:
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(* denotes present)
Agilent                    - Radek Biernacki*, John Moore, Ken Wong
Ansoft                     - Denis Soldo*
Cadence Design Systems     - Terry Jernberg*
Green Streak Programs      - Lynne Green
Hewlett-Packard            - Rob Elliott
Intel                      - Michael Mirmak*
Mentor Graphics Corp.      - John Angulo*, Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov*
Micron Technology          - Randy Wolff
Sigrity                    - Sam Chitwood*, Raymond Y. Chen*, Tao Su*
SiSoft                     - Walter Katz
Teraspeed Consulting Group - Bob Ross*

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No patents were announced.   Michael raised an open regarding meetings
after next week, due to his own travel.  The schedule will be settled
at the next meeting.

Tao Su summarized his proposals regarding specifying voltage and current
relationships in addition to row- and column-arranged data sets.  Without
establishing these relationship, no complete definition for mixed-mode and
single-ended matrices is possible.  One new line per port relationship
would establish the voltages, currents and reference impedances used for
each relationship.  

Bob noted that requiring single-ended impedances and parameters would
still be possible under this system.  Reference nodes for each port 
would still need definition.

Vladimir stated that equations are not needed in the specification; a white
paper would be sufficient, as the biggest problem is the transformation 
between standard and mixed mode.  Mixed mode and symmetry are separate issues.
Some ambiguity exists in relationships.  Tao noted that one can always go 
from V/I and A/B relationships.  Vladimir stated that standard input and 
reflected waves have a defined relationship, as mixed-mode input and reflected 
waves have a relationship.  These are not the same as V/I relationship.  

Michael asked whether we need Y, Z parameters in mixed mode, or only S-parameters.
Radek responded "no," noting that matrix conversions are harder for Y-parameters. 

Tao noted that for circuit simulation, every port should use the same reference
(this is not necessarily true of EM and RF cases)

Vladimir disagreed, stating that 2 port networks can be created with no
common reference.  Tao stated that no voltage measurements across ports
would be possible.  Vladimir added that standard versus mixed-mode conversions
are unrelated to port assignments, port ordering and symmetry.

Radek stated that unambiguous transformation rules are needed.  Vladimir
added that the original notion of ports should be preserved in the document
with no renumbering or as a separate block with different port ordering.  No
indication of incident or reflected waves is needed.  Vladimir suggested that 
a separate, general document is needed for descriptions of transformations.  

Tao will provide examples of his proposal for discussion next time.

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Team Objectives:
1) complete ICM-IBIS linking BIRD and any associated changes to the 
   ICM specification
2) update the ICM specification, if needed, to clarify the mapping of 
   ICM nodes to S-parameter ports
3) complete a specification for "Touchstone Plus" or similar 
   industry-standard definition for Touchstone-like files, to include 
   complex impedance references, removal of limits on the maximum number
   of ports and per-port impedance references